Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 10:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

Buttons (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBMAC#Discretionary sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

• on United Regions of Serbia: long-term slow rv-warring against multiple editors
  • 2 April
  • 4 April
  • 7 April
  • 10 April
  • 11 April
  • 16 April
  • 17 April
  • 22 April
  • 24 April
  • 16 May
• on 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence
  • 16 May, tag-team reverting in concert with rv-war-only account [[User:TrinaryEarth], making personal attacks against opposing editors
  • 17 May, same rv, no edit summary
  • 18 May, continued slow rv-warring just at 1/day
  • 19 May
• on Geography of Kosovo:
  • 26 May, expressing sense of "ownership" by claiming other editors need "authorization" to edit
  • [1] immediate re-revert without discussion

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

was blocked in 2011 for edit-warring and misuse of "vandalism" accusations on similar Serbia-related topics

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Warned today, prior to latest rv [2]

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Editor evidently has a long-term pattern of routinely using edit-warring as their primary response to content disagreement. Before 2011, he even had a note describing his role on Wikipedia as "protects and monitors any and all pages concerning Serbia and Serbs from vandalism".

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

[3]

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Looks like I'm a little late to my own party. I think users: NE Ent and No Such User made compelling enough reasoning not to enforce D/S (my thanks to you both). Beyond that I'll add that I believe the nominating admin jumped the gun in targeting me exclusively when both users...

IJA:

• [4]
• [5]
• [6]
• [7]

and Bobrayner:

• [8]
• [9]
• [10]
• [11]

were engaged in tag-team reverting even before I got to the main article in question. Neither of which have received any kind of warning this time but have been strongly warned for tag-team edit warring before. Although I will admit my involvement did not help the dispute. Buttons (talk) 03:55, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I hadn't checked my notifications or talk page before editing. Still, I'd like some clarification as well, because essentially anything I happen to remove (such as a misplaced comma for example) would be a "revert" of someones. As for Bobrayners spurious accusations of sock/meat puppetry on my part, the admins have my blessing to run a check user if they like, so we can put Bobrayners go-to cop out to rest. Buttons (talk) 20:30, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Close without action. 1) United_Regions_of_Serbia: Editors are expected to discuss disputed changes. Buttons initiated discussion at Talk:United_Regions_of_Serbia on 15 April. Give no one replied, they should allowed to make their edit. 2) Geography of Kosovo: (You don't have the authority to make that decision on your own) is a substantially different statement than I own the article. Per consensus, none of us have the ability to make a content decision "on our own." The reverts cited were different content. 3) 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence: Special:Contributions/TrinaryEarth is not a revert only account, and Buttons is participating in discussion at Talk:2008_Kosovo_declaration_of_independence#A_problem.

Regretfully, a lame technicality: the DS notification provided is invalid per the current arbcom requirements at Wikipedia:AC/DS#Awareness_and_alert, which requires the notification template be posted unmodified. (I agree that's its a lame rule totally out of sync with our iar pillar, but ya'll will have to take that up with the committee). NE Ent 12:18, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As an active editor in this sensitive area, I think that the report is a bit hastily construed and does not offer substantial evidence. The United Regions of Serbia dispute is hardly under ARBMAC purview, and Buttons did discuss his changes, unlike his opponents. My general opinion about Buttons's editing is that he treads rather carefully and generally tries to obey policies, save for occasional intemperate revert (for which I plead guilty as well). Buttons does have an apparent pro-Serbian bias in the area, but likewise e.g. User:bobrayner and User:IJA, his opponents in this dispute, have a pro-Albanian bias. While I don't look positively at biased editing in general, we are all humans with opinions, and all of them are seasoned and productive editors. So far, nobody of them caused any significant disruption and they were able to contribute positively and respect consensus when it was formed. I don't think the dispute raises to the level where sanctions are required. This request should serve as reminder to all involved to do more discussion and less revert-warning. No such user (talk) 15:21, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, I'd like to point out that I don't know Buttons, I've had very minimal contact with him/her. The article "2008 Kosovo declaration of independence" is on my watchlist. As with other Kosovo related articles, there is lots of controversy and disputes ect. The article is prone to vandalism and POV pushing ect, it comes with the terrain. This is why it is important that we should reach a consensus on issues. If you look at Button's contributions, you can see that his/her sole purpose is out to edit war and cause trouble. I'd like to point out that I've only reverted Buttons twice. I've encouraged him/her to reach a WP:CONSENSUS on the talk page, he/she was reluctant to even use the talk page for a while. I suppose there is some guilt on my behalf for allowing myself to get caught up in Button's edit warring campaign on Kosovo related articles, I'm an experienced editor and I should know better; Buttons went fishing and I took the bait. Buttons is now trying to shift the blame on me. I don't think Buttons has ever made a constructive edit during his/her time on wikipedia. Judging by Button's contributions, it is all edit warring, arguing and causing trouble on Kosovo and Serbia related articles. I also believe he/she is in violation of WP:SOCK, I believe that Buttons and TrinaryEarth are the same person, Irrelevantdetails is likely to be another sock account too. I don't believe I'm in a position to comment on the other articles which Buttons has been edit warring on as I've not been involved with them articles. There is however, definitely a pattern with these articles when it comes to Buttons. Kind regards IJA (talk) 11:19, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I must say, I'm really not happy about Sandstein's claim of edit warring. I must strongly object and deny any allegations of Edit Warring. During the month of May, I made four reverts. Two of the reverts were against TrinaryEarth aka a single purpose troll sock account, which has since been blocked. The other two reverts were against Buttons who I assumed to be a trouble making account.

WP:EDITWAR states "Don't use edits to fight with other editors – disagreements should be resolved through discussion." On my second revert, I told Buttons to take this to the Talk Page. [12]. The dispute was then taken to the talk page and it was dealt with there in a conversation, not in the form of an edit war. Reverting Buttons twice in a 24 hour period does not constitute as "Edit Warring", I didn't even violate the 3RR. I reverted Buttons and told him/ her to go to the talk page, so we took it to the talk page and it was discussed there. The dispute avoided escalating into an edit war by discussing the issue on the talk page. If anything, I think this is a perfect example of avoiding an edit war.

The facts are simple, there was a dispute on the article and it was taken to the talk page where the dispute cooled down/ ended. I really do not see how in a month of Sundays this can be perceived as edit warring. Kind regards IJA (talk) 09:51, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This false accusation of edit warring has really annoyed me because it isn't true. In May I have made four reverts in total, in two separate incidents. The first two reverts were against a sock called "TrinaryEarth", reverting a sock is NOT edit warring so we can take these two reverts out of the equation. My remaining two reverts were against Buttons, my second of these two reverts asked for him/ her to get a consensus on the talk page; Buttons subsequently joined in an ongoing discussion on the talk page and the dispute cooled down and came to an end; this avoided an edit war. I made only two reverts in a 24 hour period and then went to the talk page to discuss things to find a solution there instead. We tried/ attempted to resolve our differences through discussion, we avoided edit warring because of this. You just have to take a look at the talk page, the evidence is all there for everyone to see. I never make more than two reverts on one article within 24 hour period, this is because I want to stay out of edit wars. I discussed the disagreement on the talk page instead of edit warring. I tried to discuss the issue instead of having edit fights. Kind regards IJA (talk) 14:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Joy: Fair enough mate, thanks for raising this. We did indeed once disagree on Pristina-Priština-Prishtina. However I'd like to use this opportunity to point out that we discussed our disagreements on our talk pages. This is more evidence which proves that I use talk pages to settle (or at least try to settle) disagreements. Kind regards IJA (talk) 21:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Buttons' first edit since receiving his/her sanctions was to partially revert this revet. Is this in line with the recent sanctions imposed on Buttons? IJA (talk) 18:13, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I surprised by Buttons' chutzpah: Accusing me and IJA of "tagteaming" when:

• On one particular article, IJA and I both reverted obvious sockpuppets. TrinaryEarth (talk · contribs) is maybe Buttons, or Evlekis, or somebody else - there are so many different editors, sockpuppets, and meatpuppets pushing such ideas on en.wikipedia that it's difficult to be sure.
• Buttons arrived at the article after being canvassed by an Evlekis sock; Evlekis got permablocked for sock- and meat-puppetry on these topics.
• Buttons is still pushing the same POV as Evlekis - trying to insert a piece of legalese cherrypicked from a court document into the lede of 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence, which dramatically changes the tone of the lede, and in no way is it a fair summary of what's actually in the article, let alone reliable sources. I recognise that WP:AE focusses strongly on conduct rather than content, but just look at the mess which Buttons is trying to put in the article.
• As with most such disputes, I tried starting a thread on the talkpage; when Buttons eventually went to the talkpage, they avoided the policy problems and instead attacked editors who disagree.
• Just because multiple editors disagree with you doesn't mean that they're conspiring against you; there is a much simpler explanation. Many more people have reverted Buttons - not just me and IJA - and on various subjects that I've never touched before (example: [13] [14] [15]). Various other editors have warned Buttons about this revert habit. None of the bullet-points in the definition of tag-teaming apply to IJA and I; but they do apply to Buttons and associates.
• Buttons has stalked me to other articles - for instance, when I cleaned up a dangling template inadvertently left by FPaS on Geography of Kosovo, Buttons immediately came to the article and reverted with a spurious edit summary. Buttons even followed me to Commons - their first edit was to revert my attempt to update a map. (Buttons promptly appeared in the middle of a dispute which was not linked from en.wiki; it's safe to assume there was some offsite canvassing). Or Brussels Agreement, or following my edits on obscure transport articles. When I reverted a sock on List of active separatist movements in Europe, Buttons suddenly came to the article and reinserted the same problematic content. Or how about Aleksandar Ranković, where Buttons suddenly appeared after I reverted an Evlekis-sock. The same happened at Constitution of Serbia. Elsewhere, when I reverted a problematic edit by Obozedalteima (talk · contribs) on Serbia in the Yugoslav Wars, Buttons magically appeared; their first edit on the page was to revert me. And so on. As with other examples, Buttons hadn't edited that article before. How am I guilty of tagteaming if it's Buttons (and socks and canvassers) who follow me around? Similarly, when Buttons systematically reverts other editors on other topics that I've no interest in, who is tagteaming there?
• Buttons has also been canvassed to other disputes, such as this by Aleksa Lukic. Note that Aleksa Lukic also suddenly appeared on Commons to repeat Buttons' revert there.
• Another sockpuppet, Irrelevantdetails, recently arrived to make pointy edits when Buttons didn't get their way. Considering the timestamps, and that the sock has good English skills, I assume it's Buttons rather than Evlekis. A checkuser might be enlightening. Yes, I reverted that sock too. No, that doesn't mean that I'm tagteaming.
• IJA and I are both interested in similar topics, but it's very unusual that we make the same reverts - we usually go our own way (and we've disagreed on a couple of recent issues).
• However, I'd like to underline that Buttons has done some great work in other areas where our edits intersect. For instance, many military inventory articles have quality problems, and Buttons has done fine work cleaning up those pages. I have no argument there. Similarly, Buttons improved this railway article that I wrote a while back. I would hope that Buttons can stop (or be stopped from) stalking and reverting me on politically controversial topics, but I don't want to stop productive edits elsewhere.
• I would also share No such user's view that most work in these areas is now mostly consensual. Our past problems have mostly eased, although there is a problem elsewhere (with a couple of other editors) which I'm reluctant to bring to WP:AE. Normal editing is mostly productive nowadays, and I would advocate a light touch with any WP:AE sanctions. Although, of course, sockpuppets still deserve a block and perhaps a checkuser - that is (I hope) routine enforcement which shouldn't have to come to WP:AE.

Sorry. I must borrow Pascal's apology; this response is so long because I do not have time to make it more concise. bobrayner (talk) 14:10, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I realise it's probably very bad form to disagree with an arb, but sadly I must disagree a little here :-)

Sandstein said "Their statements consist almost only of allegations of misconduct on the part of Buttons and others. This is irrelevant. Even if these allegations are true, they do not excuse the edit-warring by Bobrayner and IJA". However, as I mentioned earlier, I reverted socks. Out of the four diffs that Buttons provided, two were reverts of obvious socks - and if reverting a sockpuppet now counts as editwarring then we may as well all quit Balkans topics now and let the blocked & banned editors have free rein - whilst the remaining two were reverts of longstanding editors who should have known better. I freely admit to those two reverts - one revert of Antidiskriminator, and one revert of Buttons who had been canvassed by Evlekis.

Both those reverts removed attempts to distort the lede of an article by adding a legal disclaimer cherrypicked from a primary source. (Conversely, when a source doesn't fit Buttons' POV, WP:V suddenly becomes a very high bar - the Economist isn't acceptable, noted scholars published in university presses aren't acceptable, and so on). Yes, I made those two reverts, one on 21 April and one on 17 May. If two edits separated by four weeks really count as editwarring, then I must admit fully and honestly to editwarring, express my frustration that the rules have become so strict, and pray fervently that the editors who add this kind of pov-pushing daily will be held to a similar standard.

Could we clarify - if an editor follows me round and finds new pages on which to revert me, does that count as tag-teaming on my part? I hope not. bobrayner (talk) 18:57, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I should point out that Buttons's comments about prior editwarring and warnings are deeply deceptive, too.

Evlekis had a habit of using socks to edit-war with adversaries, then immediately filing a report on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring, hoping to get the adversary blocked. (I can provide diffs of other examples if required, but am trying to avoid getting derailed here; please let me know if you want examples involving me, or other editors). That is exactly what happened in the case that Buttons links to; IJA and I both reverted an obvious Evlekis sock. Reverts of a sockpuppet do not count towards 3RR, of course, and the closing admin certainly didn't use the words that Buttons puts in their mouth. Buttons now tries to pretend that this was an actual 3RR violation, and conceals the fact that IJA and I were both reverting an Evlekis sock, and tries to use this to get sanctions against us; clearly, Buttons has completely taken up the baton from Evlekis. It's quite devious; I wouldn't blame any admin for failing to spot this sleight of hand.

Buttons: You weren't involved in that particular Evlekis-outbreak, and have never edited the affected article, and old WP:ANEW threads are very obscure. So, it looks like somebody gave you a diff that could be used to misrepresent my actions and get me sanctioned. Somebody who has previously canvassed you in a similar way; somebody who had a habit of passing diffs to allies that could be used to make adversaries look bad; somebody who had a history of abusing WP:ANEW to get adversaries blocked; somebody whose edits you have repeated; somebody who controlled the sockpuppet that IJA and I were reverting. bobrayner (talk) 12:44, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I realise that nobody's going to thank me for cleaning up after sockpuppets - it's earned me a couple of stalkers - but I would be very disappointed if it earned me sanctions. Anyway, let's look at something new.

• On 31 May, Buttons was given this sanction: "You are banned from undoing, in whole or in part, any revert (as defined in WP:3RR) with respect to content related to Kosovo or Serbia for the duration of a year."
• Buttons' first article edit after the sanction, on 3 June, is this partial revert of this revert by Beyond My Ken (talk · contribs), on 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence.

Although it's removing content that's obviously true and would be easy to source, there's no way I'm walking into that trap; will leave it to other editors... bobrayner (talk) 00:46, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

As discussed by NE Ent, we may not act on this request because the warning was not provided in the form required by the Arbitration Committee, and no evidence of how Button might otherwise have been aware of discretionary sanctions is provided. The complainant should alert Buttons with the required template, {{Ds/alert}}, and may resubmit this request if problems persist. I offer no opinion on the merits of the request, which I have not read in detail because of the abovementioned formal problem.  Sandstein  16:09, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Buttons was notified in November 2009 by User:Toddst1 here using an old-style notice. Since that notice is more than one year in the past, it seems not to count any more. Buttons should be notified now using {{Ds/alert}}. I recommend that User:TrinaryEarth be indefinitely blocked as a sock under normal admin authority. His account was created on 28 April and on 3 May he is already chatting away accusing Bobrayner of various things and restoring a contentious bit of text to the lead of 2008 Kosovo declaration of independence. To keep down the general level of socking I recommend putting semiprotection on this article as well as United Regions of Serbia. EdJohnston (talk) 16:29, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Sandstein, NE Ent, and EdJohnston: That warning issued by Toddst1 does count under the continuity section of the new discretionary sanctions procedures. As it is a warning issued under the old system so it becomes an alert for twelve months after the new DS procedure passed. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:50, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Callanecc, thanks for catching this, you're right. Then I suppose we should wait for a statement by Buttons.  Sandstein  12:58, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I really fail to see the point in you trying to enforce this twelve month limit preemptively. If someone was informed in 2009 of a set of rules set forth in 2007, they can now claim that they are magically no longer informed of those rules in May 2015, and then again 366 days later in 2016, etc etc, ... which may just become ridiculous. If an editor accused of wrongdoing says explicitly that they're unaware of the rules to be enforced, and nobody reasonably disputes that, and the assumption of good faith is maintained overall, then they can avoid sanction. If we actively dismiss complaints on technicalities, this will have the effect of encouraging people to game the system. This is not a legal system and we should not try to replicate one. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This was argued out by Arbcom (for what seems like forever) with lots of chances for the community to offer input. Anyway it doesn't change the situation for User:Buttons because he is still on notice even with the new rules, per Callanecc's observation. EdJohnston (talk) 03:54, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I can't help but notice a double standard. We're supposed to allow people this much leeway with regard to failure to respect these common rules, but when those rules are changed for the worse, then tough luck, you had your chance to complain already, now go away? That's just an exercise in putting letter before the spirit of the rules, and it's really pointless. The practical result of this will be that every time I notice here that someone has gone through that kind of an instant evasion of an AE Balkans block, I will have to exercise my general admin discretion to sanction any abuse. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:18, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Joy, I agree that the rules regarding expiring alerts are a bad idea, but this is not the place to argue about that, we need to follow the rules that we have, not the ones we may wish we had. On the merits, the report establishes that Buttons has engaged in slow edit-warring. This is sanctionable misconduct, and I recommend the following sanction: with respect to content related to Kosovo or Serbia, Buttons may not undo any revert. I agree that TrinaryEarth should be blocked as an account apparently created to evade scrutiny or sanctions, and am doing so.  Sandstein  15:44, 28 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Buttons has not addressed their own edit-warring in their statement. A sanction that prevents Buttons from repeating such conduct is therefore indicated. As discussed above, Buttons is banned from undoing any revert with respect to content related to Kosovo or Serbia for the duration of a year. But Buttons also supplies evidence of tag-team edit-warring by Bobrayner and IJA, conduct against which the two were specifically warned. As is apparent from the sanctions log, both are aware of discretionary sanctions. I therefore invite Bobrayner and IJA to make a statement giving reasons why they should not likewise be sanctioned.  Sandstein  07:10, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would appreciate comments by other administrators about whether Bobrayner and IJA should also be sanctioned. I am of the view that this is likely necessary. Their statements consist almost only of allegations of misconduct on the part of Buttons and others. This is irrelevant. Even if these allegations are true, they do not excuse the edit-warring by Bobrayner and IJA.  Sandstein  16:50, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think I have to recuse myself from commenting on that point because I remember recently having had a rather acrimonious discussion with user IJA about a Kosovo-related topic (1981 protests in Kosovo) at User talk:Joy/Archive/2014#Your revert / User:IJA/Archive 8#Re: Your revert. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:55, 2 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• It may be time to close this. Sandstein's one-year revert restriction on Buttons is appropriate. TrinaryEarth has been blocked. Based on the limited evidence here I'm not seeing a case to sanction Bobrayner or IJA, but I would listen to other suggestions. EdJohnston (talk) 23:39, 4 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• As noted by Bobrayner, Buttons has already violated their revert restriction. Their explanation that they did not check their talk page is not sufficient, because we cannot verify this claim. I am blocking Buttons for a week in enforcement of the restriction. As to Bobrayner and IJA, I am concerned that they do not seem to understand that it is never acceptable to edit-war even in the face of misconduct by others. However, there is an exception for reverting sockpuppetry in WP:3RRNO, and some of the editors they reverted were later blocked as socks, so this might be a sufficiently borderline case to forego sanctions at this time.  Sandstein  16:30, 5 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Closing: User:Sandstein has banned User:Buttons from undoing any revert related to Kosovo or Serbia for one year. User:TrinaryEarth has been blocked as an account created to avoid scrutiny or sanctions. No action taken regarding User:Bobrayner or User:IJA. EdJohnston (talk) 02:00, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Srich32977 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:32, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

User against whom enforcement is requested

SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Austrian_economics#SPECIFICO_topic-banned :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 16:12, 6 June 2014 – SPECIFICO converts Freedomain Radio from a redirect into an actual article. This conversion has the following Ludwig von Mises Institute personnel listed as part of the article:

• Walter Block – a Mises Institute Senior Fellow
• Stephan Kinsella – a Mises Academy instructor [16]
• Robert P. Murphy – a Mises Institute Associated Scholar

1. 18:09, 6 June 2014 – Article talk page: Tells me I should not be canvassing. (I had pinged two other editors who had made some changes to the article page.)
2. 22:02, 6 June 2014 – Article talk page: Tells another editor that he had not done any pinging on the page.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

None

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

• Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

1. 16:33, 6 June 2014 – I notified SPECIFICO that I thought his edit had violated his TBAN because he included Mises Institute personnel in his edit.
2. 17:40, 6 June 2014 – I added to my notification, remarking that other editors had edited the Freedomain Radio article, making a revert to the non-TBAN redirect state less feasible.
3. 18:39, 6 June 2014 – I told Specifico that I had not pinged him on the article talk page because of the TBAN

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• User talk:SPECIFICO#ArbCom Enforcement requested

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

@EdJohnston: Hello Ed. In reply to your question below: What I did was to remove a redirect for Freedomain Radio and to copy undue detail verbatim from the biography of its proprietor, Stefan Molyneux to a new article on Freedomain Radio. I did this with a cut-and-paste and didn't even look at the list of guests in the section. There have been several recent threads here and elsewhere which have affirmed that my topic ban does not apply to the Molyneux article, notwithstanding the fact that there is some content on it which relates to people who are associated with the Mises Institute. I haven't touched that content on the Molyneux article, and I didn't touch it in the course of doing the move. There are various errors and omissions in OP's complaint, but I won't address them at this time. Does this respond to your question? Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 03:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@EdJohnston:Thanks for your reply. I did not intend to be making an excuse in my previous statement. Arbcom had already affirmed that it is not a violation for me to edit the article on Molyneux, who has nothing to do with the Mises Institute. The text that I relocated from that article contains only the names of two of the Mises Institute's list of affiliated academics, with no reference to the Mises Institute or to what those individuals discussed on the podcasts. It's hard to differentiate how my cut and paste violates the intention, purpose, or spirit of the TBAN any more than did my previous editing the Molyneux article. If I had thought that cut and paste would have triggered the question, I would have done a precautionary check of the text, just as I have checked the content in sections of the article I edit. If independent views would be helpful here, there have been several Admins involved in one way or another with the recent editing on Molynuex, among them @Gamaliel:, @DangerousPanda:, and @Daniel Case:, and @Vianello:. There may have been others as well. SPECIFICO talk 13:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@EdJohnston: Ed, your view was similar on the last time I was dragged here and the prevailing view disagreed with you. As I think I've made clear the violation if any was utterly de minimis and any principle by which it was a violation could easily be shown to imply that I would have been prohibited from editing Stefan Molyneux. I certainly want to sort this out and I have no interest in going against the mandate of Arbcom. I suggest that you and I both stand back and let others share their views. We can respond in a day or two after the issues are clarified. Please consider. Thanks. SPECIFICO talk 15:34, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to request broadening of SPECIFICO's topic ban per the clause "should SPECIFICO edit problematically in the broader area, the topic-ban may be broadened if necessary through the discretionary sanctions". After being forced out of the Ludwig von Mises Institute/Austrian Economics area, SPECIFICO has exhibited the pattern of contentious editing, wiki-stalking, and insertion of false information into articles that "hover" just outside that topic ban (that mention/link to Mises people or views). He's essentially been playing around the electric fence rather than getting away to a safer distance.

I endorse S.Rich's report of this being a technically true violation of his current TBAN, but I request expansion. My proposed solution is simple: broaden SPECIFICOs topic ban to all the article pages of biographies and economic topics (allowing him to post on Talk pages may encourage him to work on presenting his arguments by citing sources, rather than just making contentious edits and not backing them up). I believe other sanctions would also be appropriate (such as interaction restrictions and limitation on number of edits he can make to each article in a single day), but before seeking a formal modification, perhaps the problems can be solved simply by moving his editing focus out of the topic areas where his passions become problematic. --Netoholic @ 02:24, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Srich32977: - The exception that allowed him to work on Austrian Economics was based on an assumption that he is an expert in the field, but I think I have evidence that shows some doubt as to his general competence, POV, or both. If he is failing to find new reliable sources AND is inserting false information even when sources are provided for him, then I think its unlikely that his "expert" status is valid or even relevant ... and so any exception that allows him to work in the Austrian Economics area is not warranted, and broadening the TBAN to biographical and economic areas will help protect the basic, factual integrity of those articles and stop contentious editing (Talk:Fractional reserve banking, Talk:Full-reserve banking are good examples of this battling pattern). --Netoholic @ 02:47, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Alanyst: With due respect, his editing pattern is still focused around the LvMI, its just that now he's working on the fringes. In retrospect, I was very unlucky to pick the wrong moment to come back to WP to work on the Molyneux article, since I started basically right as the ArbCom limited SPECIFICO from the direct LvMI stuff. My work to source out and expand the article just attracted his time and attention at the moment he had a lot to give. If it wasn't this article, it'd have been something else really close to LvMI, some other article that makes reference to LvMI people or values which can be edited negatively and, by association, perhaps disparage the LvMI. If he had taken the lesson of the ArbCom seriously, he'd have moved on to some completely different topic area rather stay near the electric fence to get burned today. -- Netoholic @ 05:55, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Specifico is not topic banned from Austrian Economics articles, only from those aspects in which the Ludwig von Mises Institute or LvMI connected people are involved. I do not endorse expanding the TBAN beyond LvMI. But I do request enforcement as per the TBAN violation documented above. – S. Rich (talk) 02:31, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If there "are various errors and omissions" in my posting, I'd like Specifico to point them out rather than make WP:ASPERSIONS. I will be happy to clarify, correct, retract, or expand as necessary. – S. Rich (talk) 04:11, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The dispute at hand is primarily between SPECIFICO and Netoholic, and has not touched on the LvMI topic from which SPECIFICO is banned, except for the mention of certain LvMI associates in the content that SPECIFICO spun off into its own article. While that is technically a violation of the topic ban, I do not perceive an attempt to trespass it intentionally. An admonition to be more careful would be the appropriate remedy, and a block or widening of the topic ban would be disproportionate in my view.

Aside from the small infraction regarding the LvMI related material, the complaints here seem to boil down largely to run-of-the-mill differences of opinion regarding sources and content, and a growing feud between Netoholic and SPECIFICO. The latter bears investigation and possibly intervention by a savvy admin, but seems outside the bounds of the original arbitration and might be best dealt with in an RfC/U or other DR venue. alanyst 05:12, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• SPECIFICO has made edits that add the names of staff members of the Mises Institute to an article. One of the names he added was that of Walter Block, who is listed among the Mises faculty. This seems to be a violation of SPECIFICO's ban from the topic of the Mises Institute. Can he explain why he should not be blocked? EdJohnston (talk) 03:01, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@SPECIFICO: Inattention doesn't excuse you from following your topic ban. You should not have been copying that material. EdJohnston (talk) 04:46, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• When closing an AE, admins sometimes take no action if the person clearly understands their violation and agrees not to repeat it. What I'm hearing you say is that you did not violate your ban and you are not responsible for the content of what you add to articles, so long as you copied it from somewhere else. Is this really the best you can do? EdJohnston (talk) 15:18, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• The request has merit. SPECIFICO has violated their topic ban as explained above. Their statements indicate that they exhibit an attitude of less than full and prompt compliance with the Arbitration Committee decision. Accordingly, SPECIFICO is blocked for two weeks in enforcement of the topic ban. As to the evidence submitted by Netoholic, it does not appear to be actionable in this context. It either reflects content disputes (the alleged errors in articles), which are outside the scope of arbitration, or conduct mostly outside the topic area covered by the decision (the alleged stalking).  Sandstein  16:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]